Serious question, may take a while but please bare with me. I have lead rides for about ten years, smallest group is me myself and I. Largest was 26 people. When I decide I’m going for a ride I’ll post. Going for a ride, meet here at this time and depart by then. Last year on one of the groups I lead for, I put up a ride and one of the admins told me off for advertising it. I told him it’s what I’ve always done and carried on. Later I met another admin and asked him what the issue was. I was told that a guy had lead a ride and a couple of new people attended. During the day one dropped his bike, but all was ok. The day ended and everyone went on their way. Later that week the leader had a solicitor’s letter through, a claim for damage to the bike and an injury claim. Luckily the club has a solicitor and it was put to bed, as it were. I was told if I lead a ride, I must put it on the closed forum, where people agree to terms ( no suing) or if I want an open ride I must put on a disclaimer. In the disclaimer you must also warm people of some of the possible risks. As leaders have responsibility. Over the last year I have heard of quite a few ride leaders being or attempting to be sued. Because I enjoy riding and want people to come out, and because I like a chuckle. I wrote a very large disclaimer which was meant to be a big tongue in cheek. But I feel it puts people off. You have asked for ride leaders, but what is your policy in protecting them.
As I understand it we don't have a lead rider as such someone may be at the front and someone may be at the back if you chose to ride between them that's your choice. As for suing them all I will say is ALL ride outs on BM are very clear you ride within the rules of the road if you chose to ride outside of your comfort zone that is your choice and your risk.
Red was this a BM ride your talking about, I've often said about ride and event organiser being responsible for things going wrong but no-one seamed to agree with me, it could be a problem for me as I was thinking of organising something this year.
I cant see the problem here. Unless the organiser is planning making financial gain from these rides then anyone taking part should take responsibility for their actions. Everyone has a choice not to ride in a group. As long as everyone confirms they are insured for the bike they are riding, there should be no comeback on the lead. If the pace is a bit to swift for anyone they can always drop out and meet up later.
Excellent topic, very good point and responses. I must admit I just took it for granted it was each person's responsibility to protect themselves with clothing and insurance no matter who they ride out with. When posting an event, either on the event forum or on the calendar adding a disclaimer may be a good thing.
Unfortunately we seem to live in a litigious society where people look to blame others for their own incompetence or lack of ability and there is no shortage of "ambulance chasing" solicitors and companies who look to make a fast buck from "where there's blame there's a claim" situations. I always understood that it is the riders duty to be responsible for both their vehicle and their riding behaviour but it's always wise to make sure you cover your own backside if you may be dealing with "Joe Public" Following such an encounter, I now have a dashcam...……………...enough said
Up until last year, I always took it that you are responsible for your actions and common sense prevailed. However after talking to the solicitor, as soon as you say you're going to lead a ride, for free because you're going out or financial gain, you have responsibility. Therefore you can be sued if things go wrong. I hate it, but it seems to be going that way. Plus I'd like to thank everyone for their thoughts and opinions, and for not shooting me down in flames, for asking.
…...and the moral of this tale is, only ride with people you know and trust. As was said by Sandi, questions like this one have merit and most people will talk about it seriously. I for one didn't realise you could be liable for litigation should someone get injured or property gets damaged just for showing others, roads and routes they might not otherwise have ridden on.
If that is the case next time I'm going out on the bike you can all sod off I'm riding alone. Hang on I don't have any friends so at least I can sue myself and admit it was my fault then claim off my insurance and win lol
Quote: Red was this a BM ride your talking about, I've often said about ride and event organiser being responsible for things going wrong but no-one seamed to agree with me, it could be a problem for me as I...
I've organised a few events for BM and lead a few rides too - so all this liability stuff concerns me. BM rule 23 states "Neither BikerMatch nor MD Web Ltd can be held responsible for any actions taken offline. We are not responsible or liable for any injuries, accidents or mishaps at any event, whether organised by individual members of the website or BikerMatch staff. All riders participating in ride outs and other events are to ensure their vehicles are adequately insured and tested for all trips. "
Which looks like a good disclaimer (although I don't know how legal it is) till we get to
"Members hosting their own events (like BBQs at home, etc) are to ensure they have appropriate liability insurance where necessary. BikerMatch will not be liable for what happens at these events."
Sooo the questions are: Does BM carry any insurance for its events? If so are we all members covered or is it only events organised by named BM staff, or some other criteria? If BM does not carry insurance where does the liability rest during an event?
Steve when the Brum events team did the Kiss rallys we took out public liability ins that was paid for out of the ticket price. All other events we have done like the Barmouth Camp, Lower Lode, Bills Cornwall camp were just that a camping weekend that was not covered under BM or any other policy paid for by us. The camping sites have to have ins to open to the public and charge a site fee that is laid out in Law and they cannot legally operate without it. I do know a member that puts on rides and she has a disclaimer that basically says you are responsible for your own actions and have not claim against the organizer and if you don't agree and sign it you cannot join the ride simple as that.
Steve I've tried to find out who liable if I take a group of BM members out and there is a problem but still don't know, could do to know as I'm considering organising something this year, Matt asking for people to organise things, so is BM reasponsable if your on the organising committee and who is responsible if a BM member organise it for BM members
Brum events team, hahaha get it right, Midland mafia! ----------------------------------------------------
Quote: Steve when the Brum events team did the Kiss rallys we took out public liability ins that was paid for out of the ticket price. All other events we have done like the Barmouth Camp, Lower Lode, Bills...
JEEZUS...…………...this opens up a whole can of worms so I'm now bound to ask if you give a ride to a pilly request and accept payment by way of meals are you then beholding to them if an accident should happen?
Having ridden (as pilly) with a large group of friends over the years. I can say hand on heart that it would never cross my mind to claim against a rider if an accident/incident occurred.
Afterall it's my choice to get on the back of a 'bike, I know the risks, I take responsibility for myself. If in doubt, don't go out.
What does bother me are those who would take advantage of the goodwill of others in order to gain financially from such circumstances.
Gbear and Lindsay If you took a pilly out on your bike or you were carried as a pilly the responsible for the safety and wellbeing rests with the rider in charge of the vehicle the same as if it were in a car the driver is responsible for his/her passengers safety regardless of any cost incurred as that could open another can of worms ( for hire or reward ).
Thanks Jackie it's something I've brought up before, it will be good to know what the official rulling is on this, it will also be helpful for anyone organising things in the future
![Just asking - Forums [Biker Match]](/images/backgrounds/strips/8mobileLQ.jpg)
![Just asking - Forums [Biker Match]](/images/backgrounds/strips/8desktopLQ.jpg)
