Please can I ask if anyone has legal expertise or even if we have a lawyer among us?
The new events planning team needs advice about liability etc for BM events (and events simply organised by members of BM, like BBQs at home etc).
Thanks!
Obviously we're inundated with legal experts then. The Event Safety Guide from the HSE might be a good starting point. I think it's mainly aimed at large scale events, but does have a section on smaller events.As far as public liability insurance goes, some people get it for events like weddings and birthday parties even though it isn't a legal requirement. It's not just about the law, you also have to consider how litigious our society has become.
thanks mate.
It's also about ride-outs. If organised on BM (not necessarily by BM) and an accident occurs then what? I've heard stories of leaders in ride outs being charged for going to fast for other riders.
If someone has a BBQ at home?
If someone organises a rally in a random farmer's field?
Is it me, the farmer, the member organising, the person who owns the land... who gets sued?
Dont mean to sound all serious and stuff, and i would hope nobody here would hold me personally responsible for their misfortune (or stupidity) at an event.
Have a disclaimer printed and if you attend any function you do so at your own risk. It's one idea not sure if it would hold up. If someone does something stupid like sets someone elses tent on fire then that's the fire starters fault and his to deal with just because it was a meet etc it shouldn't land at your feet matt
ok then what if 2 people put 2 tents close together. One sets on fire, which carries over to the next tent and kills someone inside.
Am I liable for not ensuring they were spaced well apart?
PS: The printed disclaimer thing doesn't help unless I go to every event which is impossible. If someone holds a BBQ for example.
It's a legal maze this
Matt....you could add the disclaimer into the T & C's for when members pay to join the site. The disclaimer could also detail that any non paid up members are not covered by any insurance liability that may or may not be in place.
neither standard nor premium members are covered under any liability insurance on my part.
I personally haven't organised any events, it's done between each of you who organise ride outs in your local areas etc.
I rely on everyone having their own insurance to ride on the road legally in the first place.
Problem is that we now have an Events Team as of this week and we're already planning some big events, including a charity run, rally, etc. I need to make sure that when we as a club organise something, rather than one or two members going for a ride together, that I'm still not held responsible.
I don't think putting something in the T&Cs will hold up in a major incident, as someone has to be liable.
You have to remember that this isn't just about abiding by the law, the law is relatively easy to look up and follow, it's about liability.An event organiser has a "duty of care" to everybody attending the event. That basically means they have to do everything "reasonable" to keep people safe. If even after doing that somebody gets injured then people can get sued. The injured party could sue all the organisers and everybody else there if they wanted to. The difficulty is in knowing what is required to ensure that they don't have a case. A signed piece of paper saying "we're not responsible" very likely isn't enough. The recent case of a woman suing Google after being hit by a car (while she was walking in the road) is a good example of what can happen.Where I work they "risk assess" everything, and keep written records of all the assessments, it's about being able to prove that they've done everything reasonable to keep people safe. I've been trained in such diverse things as assessing workstations, managing fires, and how to lift properly. I work as a programmer so it's nothing to do with my job, it's all about limiting their liability.With regard to organising events, maybe it'd be worth approaching a company who offers public liability insurance and see what they require before providing the insurance? It's obviously in their best interests to ensure the risk is minimum, so they might be quite helpful in offering information on what's needed. Just a thought.
A friend of mine is involved in a kite flying club.
Their public liability insurance has gone up many fold in the last few years and their coverage has been severely limited.
'Lets all stay indoors and not do anything?'
Thinks; 'isn't indoors where most accidents happen?'
sh*t! what are we going to do?
Im a stage 3 health and safety rep for freightliner but this is more a legal problem we need legal information that is acurate before we start. A ride out between mates is fine but when you have a group named event its a new ball game
exactly JP, it's all in the name i think.
Say a bunch of BikerMatch members organise a rally, but they don't put the BM name on it, and something goes wrong - who's liable? All the individuals organising it?
What if they DO put the BM name on it, even though I personally (sole owner of BM) had nothing to do with it? Am I liable just because some members used the name of a website that I own? What if I knew nothing of it and didn't give permission for the BM name to be used?
What's a name even got to do with liability? Everything? Nothing?
I understand an organiser has to make a place safe, but how is "Organiser" defined?
If I own BM, the name, and I never speak to any member of BM, never organise an event, never talk in the forums, never give permission for the BM name to be used... but some members have a "BikerMatch BBQ Weekend at John Smith's house", and one idiot gets drunk, falls over, knocks a pregnant woman onto the BBQ, she sets on fire, dies, burns the house down lol.... WHATS IT GOT TO DO WITH ME (Matt, Mwa, Ik)???
Matt ..a friend of mine set up a friendship site and individual members were at libierty to organise events, meets etc...I have emailed him and asked if he came across any issues etc and asked that he provide me with any/all information that he have.
In my job we have do risk assesments on everything. Along with a full written instruction including covering letters route cards with pre recce'd route's. It's called ALARP it means risks are kept As Low As Reasonably Possible. It used to be a four stage risk assesment now a six stage one. On course we are told that if you can show that you have done everything you could to keep it risk free including give full safety briefs at the beginning and remind before specific serials and someone deviates from the safety brief, it then becomes his fault. There are other factors like did you see him start to did you attempt to stop it etc. It is a minefield legally but what do we do.
If it is a camping weekend and all book individually then it is a campsite liability???? I dunno let's not let the shadow of political correctness and the moral Hoover that is health & safety start to impede to much..... It's very easy to get carried away with H&S..,.,
I do understand your fears Matt. I have the same thing everytime I run an exercise or a live firing range.... Liability is always at the back of my mind
Thanks Johnny.
But again that's if I organise it. I'm more concerned with WHO is responsible for an event, so do I even need insurance if I'm not organising them myself? If you invite BM members to your house - is it YOU responsible? If it's on public property, like the roads, is it covered under individual vehicle insurance? Does the BM name have anything to do with responsibility? (BTW, BikerMatch isn't a registered company, MD Web Designs is, so that stirs things up even more).
I spoke to my mate just now, he's also not sure as he only deals in professional negligence. Therefore I've emailed him all the info and he's gonna pass it on to a more appropriate lawyer in his firm.
call me thick but if you organise a day out with friends why does it have to be an 'organised 'event with all the claptrap that goes with it ? The events i have been to the thought never crossed any of our minds i am sure !!
well with the site it isjust a focal point to converse with others the events are just friends getting together really so its the same as all your mates getting together its not as if its an organised rally with you paying at the gate etc.....the last one I organised we all booked separately so it is the same as meeting any friends for a weekend of fun and beer.....jst put a disclaimer in the site, and email all members to make them aware the site is not liable..
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