I've asked a question on the Bank Hol (30th May) thread about what the etiquette is going to be.
I've already mentioned on that thread that what's fast to one person is slow to another. Regarding that ride out everyone has been warned this is going to be a fast ride but what happens if someone comes along and can't keep up? Are they left behind or will the group slow down?
Most of the other rides I've seen recently state that no-one will get left behind and the group will ride to the slowest pace/ability which is good but can lead to a frustrating and/or boring ride for others. No problem if everyone knows what to expect and is happy to sign up for that.
My opinion is probably a little contradictory. On one hand I believe no-one should be made to feel like they have to keep up or forced to ride outside of their ability but I also believe that a rider has no business showing up for a ride they know they won't keep up on and expect everyone to slow down.
Just curious to hear other peoples thoughts on this.
Maybe best to go in groups; fast, medium, slow.
As long as all know where to end up, there should be no problem.
The idea is to enjoy the ride, no matter what speed you like to travel at.
i thought all groups were ment to ride at the speed of the slowest rider anyway.
the only thing i would say if the groups are so big that event insurance may be legaly required ?? and maybe out riders too
then we all get to just red lights etc
we must make sure if its going to be a "fast" ride out, that whoever is organising this splits the groups, I agree totally with Roachy on this, the highest percentage of fatalities in a group ride out is the rider at the back riding way too past there capabilities trying to keep up, I am for one not a fast rider, and to be honest if the organised group were going like bats out of hell, i would just stop turn round and go home, as I am not putting myself at risk or other riders at risk for anyone !!!
I'm with XK on this one. I've always believed in three different speed groups for runs, although this does rely on people being honest about their ability.
When I was in the VFR Owner's club, this was how ride outs were organised if there were more than about six riders and it always worked really well. We had the groups "fast", "medium" and "P&S" (pipe and slippers lol) although we didn't always have three groups dependent on numbers.
The fast group would set off first taking a slightly longer and more challenging route, the medium group next taking the "standard" route with the P&S lot setting off last taking again the "standard" route with perhaps some short cuts. And we'd normally all arrive at about the same time.
This also had the advantage that if anyone felt out of their depth (although we operated a strict wait at each junction policy which you can in smaller groups) then they could simply wave farewell and then hang back until the next group caught you up.
That doesn't always work though XK. I'm a member of a forum where they grade their rides red, amber and green but it's so subjective isn't it? I've been on an amber one that bored me to tears and a green one that scared the pants off me to the point of saying I don't want to ride with these people again and WTF would a amber or red ride be like!
Edited to say..for what it's worth, the usual etiquette for these other rides was, don't try to keep up - we'll be waiting at the end of the road or the next turning...and they did. However some (here and elsewhere) would find that highly offensive and not in the spirit of group ride outs.
As said you must be honest about your ability and if anybody sees a rider in there group that is out of there depth thay should pull them to one side and make there concerns to them without embarrassing them
We went on an amber/red if you remember hun and I decided in the end to just let them clear off lol!
The group consisted of an extremely capable advanced instructor on a blackbird, a track day fanatic on a ktm, an ex club racer on a tweaked cbr6 and me! Two up on a slightly soggy CB13 lol!
Follow up edit; Roachy has just asked me about the above ride saying "but were they safe?" .... to which my answer was "hmm".
God, do I! Bloody mental ride that was! Amber/red ride my arse...to me that ride was bright bloody crimson!
Hmmm indeed. A short section of road, what - 10 miles and they'd made up so much ground they were riding out of the petrol station after filling up and you weren't exactly bimbling yourself! Can anyone, no matter how skilled a rider be safe at those speeds? I'm not sure they can.
But this isn't a *how fast is safe* thread, it's an etiquette thread and learning about different peoples thoughts and expectations.
The bank holiday monday ride, as it was pointed out is going to be a fast, long, hard days ride. It can be frustrating, when in a large group that you don't make progress, ie, always waiting for slower riders. The run will take 10 to 11 hours at a fast pace, which could end up being 15 hours, if your having to wait for others. I've been in many a fast ride out, you ride for yourself, at your own pace. Too many times the inexperienced have tried to keep up and made mistakes. Something to do with testosterone lol. In the past its always been you keep going straight on, until there is a turn off, then the lead rider will wait for the next and so on until you get to a stopping point for a brew, petrol or cake. This i suppose will be a red ride, for advanced, experienced riders. Not a bimble
A fast run is best served with regular brews, thus slower riders can go at their own pace. There is no one size fits all solution, the stop off system works well with big groups, the wait at next turn is ok for smaller groups. Just needs a bit of common sense( before It's totally outlawed) if you're a slower rider in a fast group just find out the destination and maybe set off earlier and make you're own way. If you're organising a run make, allowances for different abilities, just keep it simple or it'll all go pear shaped.
I'm a slow rider, not by choice, but my bike only does 57 mph tops and I don't go on many ride outs because I feel so guilty about slowing everyone up and I don't like being put at the front either as that puts me under more preassure and I don't enjoy the ride then, even though I understand that that way everyone rides at my pace. So I just end up riding on my own and I meet people there lol
There's a multitude of posts warning the pace is going to be fast/quick/hot/red/not a bimble etc with no mention of "riding for the slowest ability". Over the roads mentioned, it's pretty obvious that it invites a "brisk" pace.
To me that suggests, if you not comfortable riding quick for long periods of time, then it's probably best not to attend.
The Motorcycle club, I belong to operates a system on ride-outs whereby, there is a ride leader, usually the person who has put the route together. There is also a nominated "tail end charlie" or backmarker who agrees to hold that position for the duration of the ride. Everyone is given the chance to look at the route before setting off, so that everybody has an idea of stops and the destination.
During the ride the group inevitably will get dtretched so, the rider behind the leader (2nd rider) "marks" any junctions or roundabout exits by stopping as near to the junction as is safely possible and wheere he can be seen by anyone following. The ride leader usually indicates to the 2nd rider if he wants a junction/exit marked, via a hand signal. When everone in the group has passed, tail end charlie lets the junction marker continue in front of him. This system works quite well and you find that you move up the group quite quickly until you are needed to mark again. It also helps to keep everyone moving relatively smoothly.
It is also reassuring to slower/lesser experienced riders, to know that they wont get left behind completely.
That said, to be fair, it has been made really clear, that the ride on 30th May, is going to be fast and challenging. Like ianhg1971, I dont consider myself a fast rider, so I wont be joining them. I hope they all have a great day out and the weather is kind.
PS,all being well, I'll be at the welsh international show anyway
I go on ride outs from another forum, on there each ride is graded green (speed limit), amber (faster) and red (faster still). The rides have a leader and a tail ender, a drop off system is used to mark the route at junctions etc & when the tail ender reaches that rider he/she rejoins the group. System works well.
It relies on riders being honest on how they see their ability and the description given about the ride out.
No one should ride above a level they are not happy with, maybe when we meet up for future ride outs, the organiser should get a feel for who wants to ride at what pace before they set off, divide accordingly, just a thought.
Me, I just like to ride, no matter what the pace or group .
S24 - regarding the 30th ride out, I agree 100%, everyone has been warned what to expect and I think the answer of best don't attend is 100% appropriate.
But my question was how it would be dealt with if a much slower rider decides to come along thus leading to the ride out etiquette question.
I was also interested in the different views surrounding including or excluding people from a ride.
Its all about what your comfy with thats it, the comfort zone is your own personal space and if you want to come out of that because you think you need too even doe the guys are waiting for at the next junction then these people should not be riding bikes
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