Weirdoraptor In: Brough, E. Yorks
Posts: 2087
Karma:
I would never put down any form of advanced training, i'm sure it's saved a lot of lives.
I also agree with Kwakgirl regarding trackdays. A lot of riders go on them to have a blast and test themselves and their bikes. There are also an awful lot of newish riders who come away from a track day feeling more confident in their abilities, and with a better feel for their bikes. These tend to create a smoother rider, who can then worry less about how they are riding, and therefore take more notice of the hazards around them.
Also, if you are the type of person who sees the red mist when a faster bike/rider passes you, any advanced training you may have had can be easily forgotten. Because, let's face it, i reckon a lot just do these courses for the insurance discounts.
Every individual is different.
I'm coming up for 36 years of continuous riding and didn't take any sort of training until about 5 years ago. In the past, I've learned from experience and had a few accidents a couple of which although primarily the other party's fault, I would have probably avoided now with more experience and learning from past mistakes. I feel I benefited from doing a Bikesafe with Essex Police where it appeared that my road riding - positioning, anticipation, speed choice, etc was generally OK and the some of the tips given at the time improved on that. However, I always felt that I could be in better control of my bikes so I did Ride magazine's cornering course where I learned a lot about machine control and track days which have also sharpened up my riding. I intend to do more track days and some one to one on-road training like the magazines recommend but not the IAM stuff.
So, from a personal point of view, some additional training has been beneficial and as kwakgirl suggests track days have improved my riding. However, I share the concerns about the so-called 'advanced riders' where a lot is learned by rote and there is a tendency to become over-confident as a result. In conclusion, therefore, I believe that additional training makes you a safer rider but being an 'advanced rider' probably does not.
I'll go along with the positive trackday comments. The advantage of a track day that no one has mentioned is, you learn road position, braking and acceleration points, and how your bike reacts. This can be learned on the road also, but, on a track you get to do the same corners over and over again which you don't on the road. Therefore if you screw it up the 1st time then you get to try it again and again until it becomes more natural. Another thing that makes a better rider is knowing your limits, but in order to find your limits you have to make the mistakes. A track is the place to make those mistakes ! Improving your riding entails consistantly pushing your limits, again a track is the place and what is learned on the track "can" be transferred to a certain degree on the roads. Which will keep you safer.
pardon me for getting " off topic" again but is the reason for doing "further training" to get discount on insurance????
Its a bit of a strange incentive...how does the cost of doing the training weigh against the extra insurance. Can someone quote some typical figures i.e how much your insurance is and what you would save be going on such a course.
I did a bikesafe a few years ago, cost to me was £80 for the two days, my insurance came down by 10% and continues to be down on what it would be if I hadn't done the course. Oh my insurance last time was £154 fully comp not bad for a ZX9. I doubt very much if the discount has paid for the course yet but I did get some good tips which have helped me in my riding. Its a bit like you can have a discount for fitting an alarm, even that never pays itself back
Hmmmm £94 fully comp for a zx7r apparently its the minimum amount the insurance company charges so really there is no incentive for me to do any further training is there?
From the other comments i'd say further training is of benefit to a lot of people but unfortunately theres some things you cannot learn - you either have them or you dont..common sense being the obvious one...but also co-ordination, spatial awareness and even 20/20 vision!
Weirdoraptor In: Brough, E. Yorks
Posts: 2087
Karma:
Regarding the insurance discounts, - i was referring mainly to younger riders / newbies with very low NCDs. 10-20% discount over the next couple of years could be worth a lot of money to some people with decent sized bikes, and could also make a difference to which bike they can afford to ride.
Why do some riders think that a track day will make them a safer rider on the road? The two are poles apart.
Any extra tuition must be a help but wisdom may be needed on how to apply the information recieved.
I've been riding for 30 years and am going to do an advanced riding course in the spring. It will be interesting to see what they teach and wether it's any good. I think having an open mind helps a great deal in these matters and a willingness to keep on learning. After all biking is always changing and we need to constantly adapt to these changes.
@ Yamahama
"Why do some riders think that a track day will make them a safer rider on the road? The two are poles apart. Any extra tuition must be a help but wisdom may be needed on how to apply the information recieved. "
Hmmmmm like tuition on a trackday then?? Those 2 sentences are a bit of a contradiction arent they. Like i said previously - you cant teach common sense no matter how much you try!
"I've been riding for 30 years and am going to do an advanced riding course in the spring. It will be interesting to see what they teach and wether it's any good."
How are you qualified to decide if its any good??? by virtue of the fact that its an advanced riding course and you are not as yet "an advanced rider" by definition does that not disqualify you from passing judgment?????
I suppose the obvious question would be do you need a piece of paper to tell you whether your a safe and experienced rider??? Especially given that you cannot teach the most vital things that will make you safer?
I have gotta admit training does help, when i was a learner i took the star rider course and i noticed that after the course i tended to keep a safer distance from all the model T Fords in front lol
Track day riding as Yama said are poles apart and absolutely no correlation to riding on a road. The two most obvious differences , traffic coming at you and the shitty road surfaces. So when (if your brave enough) you've got your knee down, which you learnt to do on 'track day training' and you hit that pot-hole....ooops its all moot.
Best advanced training tips: - Ride within your limits and don't be pushed by anyone otherwise. - Ride in a variety of different weathers and road surfaces. - Never ride tired or pissed, cause there are alot out there that still do. - Get the right gear, meaning the right bike and protective gear. If you have a bike thats too small/big and 'cheap' gear, you will not be comfortable and not be concentrating.
I have some questions................
- What is it with advanced training? - Why is it that you want to do it ? - Is it because you think you can be a better rider, but need direction? - Do you just want the certificate to show your mates? (be honest)
Best advanced training tips: - Ride within your limits and don't be pushed by anyone otherwise. - Ride in a variety of different weathers and road surfaces. - Never ride tired or pissed, cause there are alot out there that still do. - Get the right gear, meaning the right bike and protective gear. If you have a bike thats too small/big and 'cheap' gear, you will not be comfortable and not be concentrating.
Words of wisdom, I will add one more,
just cos you have got the race bike and the leathers to match don't mean you ARE a racer.
Just as a matter of interest of the guys who are saying trackdays are not the same as riding on roads and therefore have no benefit...how many of you have done a track day and used the instructor?
Just as a matter of interest
of the guys who are saying trackdays are not the same as riding on
roads and therefore have no benefit...how many of you have done a track
day and used the instructor?
Not me. Did 2 1/2 years working in central london, 8-10 hours a day as a courier. NONE of the blokes I worked with did any type of advanced course and rode bloody well. Personally I don't believe in in them, but for those that want to do it, well.....thats their business and best of luck.
I believe the phrase I'm looking for is 'Horses for courses'
TBH I can see the advantages of taking both, advanced rider and doing a track day. In fact i got the choice of a track day or a helicopter lesson for my 40th birthday present.
so how can you possibly say its of no benefit then?????
Listen, I don't need a track or teacher to tell me how to take the right line in and out, when to brake , when to accelerate, which gear to be in and all the rest of it. And for the record, if the fancy takes me, yes I can get my knee down and scratch with the best of them, been there done that. Not for me any more.
You don't need to try something to know its not for you. And before you get the wrong end of the stick , I'll reiterate once again, best of luck to those that want to do it and gain something from it. OK?
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