Mmmm,confused now ttaskmaster,if you have never had a fight,'playfight' for fun(or have you actually'mercilessly hacked an opponent to a bloody death?')and would appear to live in some kind of medieval brigadoon,how can you,in all seriousness say "its not a sport,its for real"
I for one would find it a tad inconvienient to carry a broadsword,quaterstaff or a billhook in case of emergencys,for one they wouldna fit in my handbag and the possibility of arrest(in the 21st century that is)is quite high.
As for the comment about high heels,you could be pierced in several places by a well aimed stilletto before you'd had time to swing your broadsword.
In point of fact tai bo is not a martial art but a self defence discipline based on tai boxing and street fighting,where you are taught to increase your strength and build upon your instictive reactions thereby increasing the effectiveness of your punches,kicks,elbows,knees and gouges ect,there are no rules,which is quite handy as most attackers tend not to understand the concept of fair play,except cause maximum damage with minimum effort thus leaving you with the energy to get yourself away from the situation.
I applaud your obvious dedication to your sport,but c'mon,how can you seriously relate it to modern life??
if you have never had a fight, how can you,in all seriousness say "its not a sport,its for real"
So, a cook or a technician in the Army, who learns First Aid, personal weapons skills and NBC warfare.... Even if they NEVER serve anywhere near the front line and never encounter situations that demand those skills (which are refreshed every year)... can you say the same thing about them?
Why do you test on an emergency stop to get your bike licence?You train these skills for the possibility that you might one day need them. When I say it's for real, I mean it in the same context.
I also mean that we train to learn how to fight and kill, not to score points in a friendly competition. Sport teaches you to touch targets to score points and limits the target locations, like Boxing for example - Targets only to the front and no hits below the belt.
We learn to hit wherever causes maximum pain/damage and you kick him when he's down to ensure he doesn't get up again. We also don't teach pulling the blows, because that forms a habit that will get you killed in a real fight. It's full speed, full power, therefore up to your opponent to stop the attack/get out of the way.
Imagine a 3' steel sword (with blunted edges), weighing 2-3lbs being swung at you with full force and intent. THAT is what I mean by "for real" - We train under the most realistic situations possible. As a result, I have had my chin split open, massive bruising and my knuckles are now so swollen from continual breaks and bruises that I couldn't even wear a ring I was given.
No-one's ever attacked me, intending to properly feck me over and leave me bleeding. I consider myself very lucky in this respect. Other people at my class have encountered this, mostly one against a group. One guy is a security officer, another a professional bodyguard.
Lastly, ALL the instructors have been in the situations they describe for real. When they tell you what will work, what will get you killed, what your mind and body are doing and most especially when they speak quite honestly about what stupid mistakes they made, you know they speak from experience.
and would appear to live in some kind of medieval brigadoon,
Don't confuse my fascination over English history with my fighting career...
I practice my art as a very modern and relevant system - Okay, we don't carry swords and cudgels any more... but an umbrella works exactly the same way. Quarterstaves aren't lying around, but broom handles are. If nothing else, there's always the Barefist stuff too. But the Principles of the art apply to just about any weapon*.
One of the best weapons around, especially in a pub, is one of those cheap wooden chairs or a stool. We do train a little in this one as well My absolute favourite, though, is a play-fight one Christmas, with Candy-Canes. Very different weapon, same techniques and I won my opponent's Cane off him!!!!
My fascination with history is greatly fed by the background of my art, but it is seperate. Knowing it is not really neccesary to become a good fighter... just that a lot of us find it helps to understand the context in which it was used, to understand where the techniques came from and why we do it a certain way.
*With the exception of things like bows, guns and expensive tactical missiles
As for the comment about high heels,you could be pierced in several places by a well aimed stilletto before you'd had time to swing your broadsword.
You're welcome to try
Actually, I was being sarcastic about high heels. I just don't like them, personally. I find a woman in more practical outfits far more appealing. Lara Croft almost has it right - Angelina Jolie has too big a chest (probably CGI anyway) and is just a touch too scrawny to appeal fully though. Now if they'd chosen Dina Meyer.... Or Neve Campbell
My friend would differ in opinion as he's 6' 5", 21 stone and can actually kickbox in his high heels!! "Because he is a Gay", I suppose he's had to. He's probably the exception, though.
But for a serious answer to that - I sense we are about to get into the realms of the Armchair Warriors , talking our way through a fight, when the only way to ever test a technique or an idea is to try it for real, or as real as you can make it. If you want to do that, I'm more than happy to meet up somewhere with you and mess about till we find an answer.
But I will want to go for beers with you afterward, so please pick somewhere with a decent pub!!!
In point of fact tai bo is not a martial art but a self defence discipline based on tai boxing and street fighting,
Sounds interesting.... Tell me more!!
I was also joking about making fun - If it works, then it's not to be made light of... Unless you lose in a sparring match, in which case you're buying the beers!!
What do you mean by 'Street Fighting', though? What is that?
I applaud your obvious dedication to your sport,but c'mon,how can you seriously relate it to modern life??
I am more enthusiastic about my system than most, probably because it relates to my whole heritage and has become a basis of my way of life. My teachers and students are more like my family than those I was born to and I have been through an awful lot with them.
I have issues over the fact that modern culture centres around all this Eastern stuff, when we have our own perfectly good, extant system of combat. The only reason the Eastern stuff continued when we put ours aside is that we developed guns and they didn't... Modern boxing is essentially a muted version of our own Barefist style. More on this if you ask...
I have studied variously; Judo, Tae Kwon Do, Iai-Do and Iai-To, Kung Fu, Tai-Chi and probably a couple others I cannot remember. None really worked out for me as I am not physically adept and quite the clumsy one. Then I came accross what I study now and in 8 minutes, my instuctor taught me what the previous 15 years could not.
As for how it relates to modern life.... We fight not with set moves or anything, but a set of scientific Principles, which have been proven time and time again throughout history. Every animal fights according to these Principles, because they are based solely on simple, irrefutable physics. You follow these and it it is scientifically impossible to get hit (Note, I have not said that it's easy).
Truth is, most Martial Arts follow similar lines anyway, but the English system is the only one where they're laid out in a simple, systematic fashion.
And for an even more relevant modern example - Muhammad Ali, for the most part, fought by the exact same principles. Anything beyond that, I'd have to show you.
I think it should be noted ttask that all of the eastern styles you refer to are sport related arts.
The exceptions being Tai-Chi, which can become a fighting art but takes many, many years to master and kung-fu, which again can be an excellent defensive art. However, as you don't say what form of kung-fu I can't comment.
If you are interested in realistic forms then perhaps you should try a jutsu style rather than a do?
Then when you have spent a long time studying a few of these you may be better positioned to discount them as "utter cr*p"!
Wing Chung Gung Foo?, developed by mr B.Lee would be very difficult to to class as a sport as he developed it over time taking the best of other dicaplines and adding street fighting into the mix hardly a sport or just for defence system.
Not that i've studied any kind of martial or other art form,
like the scene in indiana jones when faced with a sword wielding arab bloke an jus shot im brill! so your ancient english martial art is jus pickin things up around yu an using em like medieval weopons![plus a good boot in the nuts] dressed in protective leather an knee guards etc plus helmet were halfway there!! perhaps a lance for when on the bike !!! like in the army when the ammo runs out its bbbs[boots butts an bayonets!!]
We could argue about the pros and cons of various fighting techniques until the cows come home but like evreything else it is simply a matter of personal choice.
I don't think it really matters which you chose as long as it is relevant to you and your needs.If wresteling in jelly gives you the confidence you need then that is all that matters.
I am happy knowing i have the ability to defend myself if the situation arises,i have never needed anyone to fight my battles for me and do not limit my life experiances to safe situations.Yes this has got me into trouble a few times and i cant in all honesty claim to have always escaped unscathed,but life is to be lived and i for one never intend to be a little grey person who always takes the easy route for safetys sake,where is the fun in that?
If wresteling in jelly gives you the confidence you need then that is all that matters.
Never tried it. But hey, I'm game.
Never knock anything you haven't tried... that's what I always say... Unless I'm saying "Dammit! I'm late! Again!"
I think it should be noted ttask that all of the eastern styles you refer to are sport related arts.
I think you should re-examine that, Geoff. Certainly, many Western classes teach these and other arts as sport, particularly Judo. However, they are not all focussed on scoring points as I'm sure many will attest.
The exceptions being Tai-Chi, which can become a fighting art but takes many,
I've heard this and spoken with several instructors, including the chap I studied with. Seems no-one knows how what we learn in the West (Yin form, Yang form, long, short or whatever interpretation) actually becomes a fighting art. Having seen Eastern-taught Tai Chi performed at speed as a fighting art, it looks very different to anything I've seen marketed over here.
However, as you don't say what form of kung-fu I can't comment.
I was given the chance to try various ones. The only name I recall is Five Animals. Another involved Nunchaku, which I enjoyed learning and is the only thing from my past that I still occasionally play with, but it's more for my own fun than a serious weapon.
If you are interested in realistic forms then perhaps you should try a jutsu style rather than a do?
I was doing what was available to me at the time. Most of the Eastern stuff I did for less than 2 years, moving on when I found it didn't work for me. Iai-To and Iai-Do were my first forays into swordfighting. However, the guy there had a major 'Yellow Fever' thing going and it was more ceremony than anything else. It was also very expensive and about 2/3 of the class claimed to be ex-SAS or similar. Judo I just got my scrawny arse chucked about the place by all the big people.
I might have had success with a Jutsu style, if one had been available (and if I knew what one was back then). However, I've found what works for me and so far has kept me grinning like a kid in a candy shop for five years. If ever it stops doing so, then I'll look elsewhere. I do appreciate the recommendation.
Then when you have spent a long time studying a few of these you may be better positioned to discount them as "utter cr*p"!
Okay, first off - I NEVER said Eastern systems were crap. Some are great. Others depend on how they're taught. A lot of Western teachers do talk and teach bullshit, usually for a high price as well. My 'Samurai' instructor is a perfect example - I know this system can be devastating, but the guy teaching it was not.
Secondly, is FIFTEEN YEARS long enough?Should it be 15 years for each, or 15 years for a bunch of 'em?If the latter, then..... Been there, done that.
Some things you can figure out quite early on - There are only so many ways to punch, so many styles of kick, so many blocks etc etc. That's physics for you and as the big Scottish fella said, "Ye cannae change the Laws of Physics". If a child can see that it obviously wouldn't work,then it obviously wouldn't work.
My experiences with the things I tried out was mostly negative. Other people will have found a teacher who can teach their chosen system in a way that works for them. I've found mine. It just happens to be an English style, which suits me in more ways than just what I was looking for.
like the scene in indiana jones when faced with a sword wielding arab bloke an jus shot im brill!
Don't forget the follow-up in Temple Of Doom, where he goes to do the same thing, realises he lost his gun and his jaw hits the floor!!!!!
so your ancient english martial art is jus pickin things up around yu
You have a thing, you hit someone really hard with it. That's the be all and end all. It worked back then and it works just as well now. It's like walking - The principles of how to walk have not changed - Neither have the physics that govern a fight. We train with specific weapons, but the way they are used and the principles that dictate how this is done apply to most weapons, both ancient and modern.
dressed in protective leather an knee guards etc plus helmet were halfway there!!
We don't really do the protective gear stuff. Other systems do, but most of us find it too restrictive. We wear padded helmets when sparring and anything else an individual chooses, but it's mostly done in just normal clothes.
We could argue about the pros and cons of various fighting techniques until the cows come home but like evreything else it is simply a matter of personal choice.
I don't argue the pros and cons of techniques - Just the approach behind it, which is always simple physics.
"Before I studied the art, a punch to me was just like a punch, a kick just like a kick. After I learned the art, a punch was no longer a punch, a kick no longer a kick. Now that I've understood the art, a punch is just like a punch, a kick just like a kick."Bruce Lee.
I don't think it really matters which you chose as long as it is relevant to you and your needs.
Hey, I was going to say that!!
I'll just add that a lot of people do get taken in by the "mystic mountain" bullshit that the movies would have us believe. Many such unfortunate people are Instructors and a lot of us are getting ripped off over hyped up crap. The only way they find out that it doesn't meet their needs is the one time they really need it to!! There used to be regulatory bodies to prevent the crap from being marketed, but they've been outlawed on the idea that they might become a monopoly.
I know of someone who challenged my teacher to a fight, him empty-handed against my teacher's sword. His belief was that the "Martial Art Magic" of Norse Runes would protect him. In a way, they did - 'cause my teacher laughed and walked away. But can you take that seriously? Would that work against a bunch of marauding Chavs?
If wresteling in jelly gives you the confidence you need then that is all that matters.
I'm not sure I know what you mean..... Can you demonstrate?I believe Wannabe has offered to partner you......
The only serious and proven defence technique against a bunch of marauding chavs is the ancient and classical phrase
"Kinell! Look at that Corsa!"
If you are unfortunate to be unable to shout this then simply run past a branch of TK Max or anywhere
punting Burberry rip offs
Situation contained!
The only serious and proven defence technique against a bunch of marauding chavs
Being all historical and that, I'm also a fan of the Stake Through The Heart. It works on all Vampires*, so that must include the ones who drain the blood of the Benefits system......
*Actually, it works on just about any living creature, doesn't it. Kinda silly, really
Ah... stake, not steak.... that makes sense!! doh...
I had tried to dispatch my enemies in the 80s using meat-based weapons but found a steak to be completely useless and absolutely impossible to penetrate a chest cavity with. Found the best solution was to freeze a sausage and sharpen one end. I would then push it into my enemies heart while muttering the phrase "meat your maker..."
Oh happy days.....
The (ex) Sausage Avenger
(I did have a sidekick, Midget Butcher Boy but he soon retired.... said something about the steaks being too high)
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