Alright TT, apologies for offending you. Tact is not one of my strong points, but I do try.
I didn't take anything you said as ridicule at myself. You played the sexism card on Ragnar, not me. I provided two posts full of factually correct counter arguments in the first instance, just in this second instance I was in too much shock and only addressing your use of the "sexism" card against Ragnar. I did offer factually correct counter arguments if anyone was interested, but no one has PM'd me so it would seem no one cares. :)
I still can't get my head round letting go the handlebars in a tank slap though? Having been through a few tank slaps and come out upright, that sounds like the ultimate recipe for disaster.
wow i think Hello There and just about any other leaner will be totally confused trying to remember all this when trying to stop, they will be that busy trying to remember what to do they'll probable miss there breaking point altogether, think theres to much info here
I could be wrong on this one ,
but +ve giroscope effect only affects the front wheel
which in effect is a gyroscope ..
the back wheel is fixed in that it cannot move from side to side
therefore no gyro effect ... gravity and centrifugal force now thats a different matter...... anyhow Ride Like You Mean it tata
Yea, gyro doesn't come into it much. Centrifugal forces, momentum and centre of gravity a lot more..especially at speed.
Did some reading about tank slaps...and I'm willing to agree that if you let go the handlebars the bike will eventually right itself, but there is no guarantee on how long it would take, what lane your bike would be in, whether it would swerve off course or even if it would hit a curb before properly correcting itself.I think I'll stick to throttling out of tank slaps, sounds much safer and more reliable.
i personally would not let go of the handlebars, then you have no control at all thatis positevly onerous, yeah either way acceleration or decelleration shoud take it out of unstable range, i would opt for
decellerate conditions would obviously dictate..
Ride Safe koolkev
ps love this forum very interesting grasshopper
Well thanks for more replies, have to say I'm going with Ragnor's advice, it will be interesting to see how my new instructor tell me how to do it on Friday,hopefully the same.
As for the back brake, I really only use the back brake at the moment not the front, but then at the moment I'm keeping within speed limits as training, so use gears to slow me down to junctions etc, and a little back brake if needed to slow down or stop, I was told not to use the front brake at all on slow manoevers for mod 1. I never have my hand over the front brake either as I was touching it with my hand on it and putting the brake light on and getting shouted at for doing it, so I just avoid it and don't feel the need to use the front brake at the moment. Perhaps this is why I struggle with e-stops too, who knows lol!
it does all sound very complicated and confusing to me with all the different advice!!!
i dont think i was told what to do on an emergency stop specifically, but i knew the front brake is much harder so it kinda makes sense to use more front in an emergency and just a bit of back but not too much front - i think its all aoubt kinda letting your natural abilities come out and feeling what works... its similar to car too as in put clutch in late on to stop it stalling....
if i remember rightlyl you have a distance to stop within so its not too bad really... but i think if you maybe try relax as much as possible and believe in your abilities Hello There and you will do fine
i once had a small tank slapper, didnt have a clue what i was meant to do but instincts just told me to kinda throttle out of it and that seemed to work (woohoo) .... not had one since tho thank crunchi!!
And of course the back wheel has a gyroscopic effect on the bike, it's a bigger, heavier wheel than the front for starters! And as such creates a stronger gyroscopic momentum, which in turn has more effect on stopping the bike from falling over.
Sorry Spaceboy/Magneto, but I think you're getting confused regarding the gyroscopic effect the front wheel has in turning. It is not the gyroscopic effect directly that causes a bike to lean over when turning; but rather the reactive force, known as gyroscopic precession, forcing the wheel and therefore the bike to lean over when the rider attempts to turn the bars. That and the reactive force through the bike attempting to turn the bike in the opposite direction.
With the back wheel, the very fact that it is fixed means that it is better equipped to resist turning and leaning. This in turn helps to keep the bike stable. This is less so in pedal-cycles because the wheels are much lighter, but in motorcycles the back wheel has quite a stabilising effect.
More than the effects of forward momentum or centripetal forces of the wheels? Probably not, but still quite an effect.
Indeed, there are many who say that even the spinning of your crankshaft has quite a stabilising effect on the bike and it is certainly true that at low speeds the bike is more stable at higher revs!
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH Once again i see the threads supposed to be started to help someone turn into a biatchin match!!!!!!
Please all chill out a wee bit, we all ride differently, have been taught by different instructors, ride different bikes (which makes a huge difference in itself), so obviously we all have different advice/opinions...................i think what Hello There wants is just a wee guidance into passing emergency stop on her test............Not starting another BM world war on the subject!!!!!!!
It seems that Hello There has decided on taking Ragnars advice, which is the correct way.
There is little point in any of us adding anything further at this stage, as confusion can take over.
Good Morning geoff n all
Knew there would be a simple logical explanation.. a bit too much information, initially i was refering to applying gentle pressure on the inside bar when cornering and assumed we were talking about slow legal road speeds at which the gyro effect would be very slight..
eg hold both ends of a pushbike wheel spindle then spin it.. and tilt..
The faster its spun the greater the gyro effect, heard of the terms precission etc etc its all good stuff, after this is aforum is it not
Ride Safe
Please don't missunderstand me people, you guys have got some good interesting technical stuff going on, but this could be put on another forum for us to read and comment.
Wow, ya don't use your front brake atall.
I could be wrong, but this may have contributed to your inability to errrr 'stop'
Now then , there is a lot of splendid advice on this thread, about how to use brakes correctly. This advice is not for you. This advice, is for someone that actualy uses their brakes.
If you dont have the confidance or the ability to 'grab a handful' of brake.Then perhaps motorcycling is not for you.
If you ask any biker 'what's it like on the open road' they'll all tell you that they spend a fair amount of their time avoiding 'pillocks in cars, trucks, buses , etc'. Ya can only do that , IF ya have confidence in your bike and your ability to control it .
I wish ya well, but don't kill ya self...Dusty...
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