Just present the right statistics in the right order and you can justify anything. Leave out the data you want and rely on others to spot that, then go find the info themselves and formulate a reply and you are probably expecting too much.
Most road incidents aren't accidents, they are crashes, because it's usually within the power of the protagonists to have acted, or reacted, in a manner that would have averted the collision, even if that is a car pulling out on you.
I was told once by a copper in Germany there was no such thing as an accident. everythig is avoidable
This was after I had crawlled out of an upside down BMW as my mates stearing rack had colapsed sending us into a spin from which we rolled a couple of times.
He said it should have been maintained better Which was probally true
What is the power to weight of the Pan Euro ST1300?
I remember reading on another firm a post my a Judge who was also a biker. He was looking for a simple calculation to put speed onto some form of context. His argument was that 70mph is a number that has do visual analogue. he calculated that if you take the speed in mpg and double it you get the speed in feet per second +/- 2%. So if you are travelling at 70mph you are travelling at 140 ft/s. An arctic lorry is 40ft so you have an idea of the amount of ground you cover in 1 second on the motorway
"Just present the right statistics in the right order and you can justify anything."
You're absolutely right Lamble, MCN does this every week!
Please don't get me wrong here, I'm not suggesting that bikes shouldn't have the power to weight ratios that they do. Acceleration is one of the main reasons why I love riding bikes.
But I do believe that there should be a mandatory term, such as the two years that A2 licence holders must serve, during which you are restricted to what you can ride.
I do think that 33bhp is too low. The jump from 33 to 200bhp isn't much different to the one that you'd have going from 11bhp and for this I am all for the new 47bhp (if memory serves me right) rules. Even then, maybe this is too low, maybe something like 60 or 70bhp is more appropriate.
However, I do also think that car drivers should be made to suffer similar restrictions. The fact that you can pass your test in a ten year old Micra and then buy and drive an Impreza or Cleo Sport is crazy.
I remember back in t day when I passed my test on my XL250 27bhp??, I was not in a position to go buy something a lot bigger or more powerful as I was on the other HP restriction for 3 years lol, but I never had a hankering after something amazingly fast, (well I did want a cb900fII lol) I was a bit green when a lad from collage rolled up on a shiney new 750 bonnie sadly one of the last build.
But HYPER cars like the Varon are far beyond the reach of the masses and a 2 tonne car would make a bigger mess of something it hit at it's potential top end that a bike doing similar speed, however in the real world bikes capable of over 180 mph are far more common than a car of that bracket, yes there are cars that are capable of silly speed to in a lot lower insurance bracket but it's quite often perants who erm "spoil" their off spring by allowing them to be added to their insurance so they can "afford" to insure these faster cars. I think it's time that loophole was closed.
I'm still an advocate of ALL road users to start on a ped for 1 year, move to a bike 125 for annother year then onto annother bike if desired but only at 20 be allowed to go onto cars in a similar resticted way, this would result in 1 less congestion, 2 a far greater understanding of road conditions and awareness of two wheelers and the vunerablity of two wheel users (less kids conceived too early lol)
RustyKnight In: Newton Aycliffe
Posts: 2462
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Hello folks, i'm one of those mid life returning bikers after 20 odd years. My last bike was a Z750 1983, square tyres, dodgy brakes and suspension like an old mattress. Six weeks ago I bought a Fazer 1000 after reading great reviews about it being so forgiving. After a couple hundred miles I couldn't believe how confidence inspiring the big tyres, brakes and suspension were so i found a good stretch of straight road and opened the throttle to the max in third gear. After 2 seconds of hanging on for grim death with my eyeballs rattling in their sockets I have to say what the f**k is that all about?? I didn't dare look at the speedo as I was concentrating on the blurred horizon in front of me getting ever closer. Four weeks later I've got control of my eye ball muscles and it doesn't seem that fast anymore but totally unneccessary for british roads. There should be a mandatory 2 year 'sensible' period for riders to build up their experience as well as their eye muscles! 200 bhp on a 200kg machine sells bikes but when does the race between manufacturers for the fastest bike end, maybe when the cops get that sick of shovelling people up off the road that the government has to get a grip!! Aren't we in danger of a self fulfilling prophesy if we keep on egging manufacturers on to build quicker bikes, after all we keep buying them!
The fact is RK, that in the right hands a modern sportsbike is a seriously safe bit of kit.
It can out manoeuvre and out brake anything else on the road. It has a tremendous amount of grip in the corners and if the needs to require it, it has the acceleration to simply be gone should trouble appear.
I have used target fixation to my advantage a few times when I've found myself going into a corner a little too hot. Forget about scrubbing off speed, forget about braking and trying to sit the bike up whilst you lose even more speed. Just concentrate on the exit of the corner, focus on that and forget everything else and the bike will just go there!
Accidents on corners, which are by far the most common accident involving a bike alone, really shouldn't happen. But they do.
It ain't because people are outriding their bikes. I remember reading a column in Performance Bikes about ten or so years ago written by Mat Oxley. He said that if you can outride a modern sportsbike, then your name is probably Mick Doohan and you're getting ready for your next GP.
And bikes have moved on a huge amount since then.
It is obvious that people are losing it on corners due to a lack of training/experience/both!
However, I do take your point. I love acceleration, but I enjoy acceleration from around forty to eighty(ish). Do we really need bikes that can accelerate quickly from over a ton?
(Says he who quite fancies a ZZR/Busa next!)
RustyKnight In: Newton Aycliffe
Posts: 2462
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Geoff I absolutely agree with you 100% about the bend thing. I know i'm inexperienced in that I haven't got a clue what my bike is capable of so my instant reaction is to sh*t myself and react exactly as I do in the car, brakes on! We need training on risky cornering so if we do have that 'oh f**k' moment we can have better judgement!! I'd be well up for some kind of 'proper' training and i'm sure there are tens of thousands of returning bikers like me who'd be more than willing to undertake some confidence building.
BikeSafe - just Google it - will tell you about the police-backed observed rideouts up and down the country with lots of feedback. They can be very rewarding and instructive, and also confidence-building for a returning rider, but they're not strictly-speaking advanced training.
It all comes dowm to the "nut behind the wheel" or in our case the nut holding onto the bars!
It's not the speed that kills but the sudden stop at the end!
Cars and bikes have moved on in huge leaps over the years both being more comfy, smoother, faster and brake quicker. All of which leads to one thing. Over-confidence. Not being aware of the speed with the corner looming and then forgetting the training even if you did take some.
I took my test in 82 because of the 125 ruling and became a "born again" 5yr ago but had the sense to get a superdream to get the feeling back.
Common sense is sadly lacking in some.
RustyKnight In: Newton Aycliffe
Posts: 2462
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Well lezg I hope there were plenty more bikes between the superdream and that that you're sat on because there is absolutely no relationship between a superdream and what you're sitting on. It would be like comparing honing your skills on a Raleigh Tomohawk to ride a LC350. Common sense is returning in your 40's, buying a bike that will serve you for a couple of years and is powerful and big enough to cope with that extra 2 stone you're carrying, riding within what you feel is your limits and praying you'll not experience an 'off', something you hear about but think will never happen to you. 'Proper' training is the key, someone that can teach you the limits of what you're riding and what you should do when you get there!!
This one might be a little off your topic Geoff but, I find that the way I explore a new route, and the many (more the better) corners that are on it, is to try to avoid using my stoppies at all.
Obviously, except for the 'muppet in a micra' times that happen every once in a while, I ride a bit slower, think about my lines more, and look a lot further ahead.
This also makes you study roundabouts and the speed/direction of the tin boxes that are on em more, so that you see the gaps forming long before you get to the give way line.
Ok, hill starts are about the only exception, but unless someone is freewheeling backwards into you, there's not much of a threat there.
It isn't fool proof, (because they go over fields) but the telephone wires are often a good indicator of where the road goes over a blind rise. If it looks like the road goes straight over the top of a rise, but the wires go gently to one side, just be ready to go in that direction,... and if your not sure, BACK OFF.
RustyKnight In: Newton Aycliffe
Posts: 2462
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So Ian every bend has a safe entry and exit speed. I think what we're talking about is how does an inexperienced rider judge that. I'm often finding myself slowing down too much and thinking I could have kept a bit more power on, that's a good thing at the moment but I still arrive at the odd corner thinking shit, too much! What is 'slow in' for some corners is embarrassing in others, how do we newbies differentiate?
Good point Rusty..it is hard to gauge I try and look far ahead like Paj said...mind you I havent got the power yet to go silly..dont intend to ride like a nutter when I get a bigger bike either...just enjoy it
i think we can judge whether we all are going into a corner too fast or not, i have been riding for over 20 years and dont go into corners too hot, especially if i dont know the roads
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