I know many of you don't agree with the current test rules and some of you will be (quite rightly) pretty annoyed about the potential new rules for 2013, but have a look at this.
Following what I had posted on another thread I did a bit of investigation and comparisons.
Power to Weight ratios of bikes through the years;
78 Suzuki GS550 - 224hp/tonne
78 Honda CX500 - 227hp/tonne
87 Kawasaki GPZ900 - 500hp/tonne
99 Honda CBR900RR - 615hp/tonne
03 Honda CBR600F - 640hp/tonne
05 Suzuki SV650 - 430hp/tonne
07 Honda CB1300 - 510hp/tonne
08 Suzuki Hayabusa - 906hp/tonne
09 Kawasaki ZX10 - 1100hp/tonne
So the first Fireblades had over twice the power to weight ratio of a bike from the late 70s and a modern sportsbike is approaching twice that!
Compare that to these two;
McLaren F1 - 550hp/tonne
Bugatti Veyron - 530hp/tonne
Perhaps it's no wonder the powers that be are trying to restrict access!
I think what Geoff was illustrating is that a modern sports bike is capable of twice the acceleration of a modern super car and to show how much the modern sports bike has evolved over the years. The difference being that a modern sports bike is well within the reach of average joe where as the super car isn't. It is startling to read when you make a direct comparison.
I know you have the likes of celebrities/sports personalities who do have access to that sort of money and it doesn't stop them having accidents etc and of course any machine only goes as fast as you make it. But what about those who have every intention of making it go as fast as it can or those who make mistakes - the new and/or inexperiencd rider which these new licensing laws are aimed at (I know I've been caught out releasing the clutch a little too quickly with a bit too much happy hand as a friend calls it and I'm on a bike with a throttle restriction that prevents me from making too serious an error).
I think the point was, the powers that be are trying to address a situation that simply wasn't there 20+ odd years ago.
Thanks Geoff - you've nicely illustrated the point I've been trying to make during various conversations I've had over the past few years! I can now go in, armed with some facts n figures
Generally speaking, there are very few people who learn to drive, then get straight into a top end sports car, either for financial or insurance reasons... Yet with bikes, it seems very easy to go for Direct Access and leap straight onto a seriously powerful sports bike...
Yes, any motorised vehicle will only go as fast as you permit it to, but when you're inexperienced, it's easy to make mistakes. *Real* control only comes with experience.
It's common sense really - when you learn to ride a horse, you don't grab the nearest thoroughbred race horse to have a trot on! Should be the same with bikes... plus those who once rode their mate's FS1E in the 70s seem to think they're more than capable of handling a modern sports bike... You're not!
Sorry Ian
150bhp and 227kg equals 660bhp/tonne.
Not that impressive for a big sports tourer maybe, especially compared to the modern equivalents, the Hayabusa or the ZZR in particular, but we have to remember that this is a ten year old design.
Of course we also have to remember that the stats above only show acceleration at peak power and don't take into account torque at lower revs. The Blackbird or Hayabusa for example and maybe even my CB would pull away from the ZX in a "real world" 3rd/4th gear roll on test (up to a point).
Roachy's absolutely right though. My point with the above is linked to relative availability. A million squid is required to buy a modern supercar whereas a machine capable of accelerating twice as quickly can be bought for less than ten grand!
Of course, other comments are also correct in that the bike only goes as fast as you twist the throttle, but inexperience and/or stupidity can cause issues here.
Having looked at these statistics and from a road safety point of view I'm suddenly a fan of the two year restriction rules and not so much of a fan of Direct Access.
Sorry!
There will always be Idiots out there who will push the limit no matter what they get there hands on.
A subaru has a ferocious acceleration and can be bought for little money now. with the added effect that the driver feels safe in his or her cage with all the seatbelts and air bags couple this with there mates sitting beside them egging them on.
And when it goes wrong there is a lot more mass to do damage.
I dont want to see anyone hurt or killed but I dont agree with the nanny state. go down that route and wont be long before bikes will be so restricted and loaded with so called safety features they wont be worth riding
Geoff,i've always been anti das,experiance and miles under the belt cannot be beaten by a few days training,however given the new legislation and the cost of lessons i am now considering going the das route for purely economic reasons and am sure i am not the only one.
I have to agree Cassie - if I can ever get it together to actually afford to buy a bloody 125 in the next 14 months before my CBT runs out and get a few miles under my belt on L-plates, I'll be aiming towards the DAS, just to get it out of the way before the legislation changes.
That said, I'm also highly unlikely to dash out and grab myself a high end sports bike once I've got the DAS under my belt
I take your point too Mick - nannying is getting worse and worse, making common sense, rare sense these days. I can sympathise with the desire to restrict access, given the facts & figures though.
Mind you - that doesn't help with one of the highest accident per head rates, being that of "men of a certain age" suddenly taking it upon themselves to return to biking after a 20-25 year absence and being in the financial position to grab the most powerful sports bike they can and swiftly wrapping themselves around the nearest lamppost. So it's not necessarily the newbie riders... the changes in the tests/licensing over the next few years isn't going to help with that sector of the biking population.
Can you do a comparison of braking distances across that time gap too Geoff, as I dare say today's brakes are far more effective too.
Once again it would boil down to appropriate application though and that comes with training and experience.
So while checking on the brakes and hp/tonne, can you also check out the methods of training across that period and correlate the road incidents , to the training, then factor in an equation for the better technology now available, but the higher volumes of traffic, throw in a variable for speed cameras and see if you come up with 42!
Everything is far more effective now Lamble. Tyres,brake compounds and suspension improvements have all pretty much gone light years ahead of the 70's.
I also feel that most bikers and wannabe bikers at least get a bit more nurturing along the learning path than car drivers. Theres always an experienced hand to offer advice or to keep an eye on someone learning.
I also think most bikers have the sense to naturally progress through the bike capacities and hone their skills rather than jump onto a fire breathing monster the first time out, although its not unknown.
Statistics, formulaic propositions and data. Let's get to the bottom of this with hard calculations, not wishy washiness of persnal perspectives...slide rules, calculators, spyro graphs and etcha sketch, let's not cut corners. I suggest we ask the Office of Statistics, if not here then Iranian Poll Counters, or Florida chad checkers, they both have a history of accuracy...give or take.
Don't the manufacturers of these super sports bikes have the figures on hand that you're calling for , i'm sure that before these machines are sold to the public every possible acceleration/braking track and road test has been considered and done under normal as well as extreme conditions , simulated or otherwise ? here i must agree with Geoff , not only is the inexperienced rider of s.s.bike a danger to himself but every other road user as well .
Spyro Graph, etcha sketch, 42, do these really sound like serious tools for statistical analysis?
Jeezie Chreezie gentlemen, try to lighten up.
If there are any figures, at all, anywhere, then the variances in circumstances that are involved in turning them into an accident (although an accident is unavoidable, what I believe is being indicated here is crashing, which is avoidable) are so many, as to be incalculable.
Now Lamble I dont think you are taking this at all seriously. Dont think there is a tongue in cheek Emoticon
As we all know it dosnt matter about your power to weight ratio there is always some cage driver ready to pull out in front of you
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