If the 'vanishing point' is getting closer, the bend is tightening up, and your going to either have to slow or drop it a little bit lower down to get it round the bend, for a learner, the slowing part is a better choice than counter steering.
One way of telling what a corner does,.. further round it and out of your sight, is to look at what speed the cars (or bikes) are doing when they come into your view. If one comes into view doing 60, then there's a good chance that the corner has a good fast exit for you, but if it's doing 20, there could be a threat of some kind so be ready for it.
Sometimes on right handers, especially those with high hedges or walls, if you spot a push bike coming the other way just on the bend, get over to the near-side, sharpish. 'Ell muppet' in his micra might come round the corner and swerve into the line that you were going to take. Don't laugh,.. it happens.
thats good advice reading the road and looking far ahead anticipating hazards,most car drivers dont look far ahead being coccooned in steel listening to music an stuff so we have to be heads up an alert at all times! i ride home at night sometimes in deer country like to tuck in behind cars so they can hit the thing!![using thier headlights to see far ahead as well ] cagers can be useful!! long as they aint to slow! still aint gonna stop one running out in front of me unexpectedly but there eyes can glint up at the side of the road from headlights so giving you warning !
The thing is RK, this is what's known as experience...............it can be very hard for new bikers to gauge corners, (and sometimes for us more experienced ones too!), but over time and with practice we do improve.............that is the whole point of experience, it can only be gained by lots of riding.......we are all still learning and gaining experience no matter how long we have been riding
Paj, the advanced riding books will tell you to take corners wide so as to maximise your visibility of the road ahead. On a right hander, if you follow that rule, you should be on the near side anyway and well placed to avoid the muppet in a Micra coming the other way who has moved out into the centre planning to overtake the pedal cycle. Trouble is, it's an imperfect world and the racing line and the maximum visibility line in a bend can often be very different. Not, of course, that any of us take a racing line in a bend, do we?
Very true D13 , i've also been riding for many years and i'm still a learner , also there's no denying it , over a certain age your reflex timing slows down and reaction pays a price ! i love riding but these days it's for my pleasure and if i'm last at the post ...so what i'm enjoying myself .
How can you be too slow into a corner. If the outcome is you get round it safely, then you were at a speed that was right for you, on that bend, at that time...look forward to the next bend, you may take that quicker or slower, who knows.
Position yourself so you can see as far around the bend as possible and that will help you judge the speed. I've never held with this Vanishing Point, not since the opening up vanishing point happened to be someone's driveway that entered on the bend and looked just like the damn road straightening out.
IOM course and a good job their gate was open. ZX9 parked outside their house and a rather shaken me saying, "are you sure this isn't a B&B?"
I know Wills,..as soon as I posted it I read it through a couple of times, and realised. The roads where I've come across the bike prob are usually very narrow ones, not single track but not much wider, in the lakes. They have a max speed of around 40 (very tight bends more suited to a motard than my ST), but hey,.. I do get lost occasionally.
Yes RK there has been bikes in between and although I considered myself to be a born again I've always had the opportunity to ride over the years, some for work some for pleasure. I have also had training having to ride police bikes when the cop comes and tells you "it's got a wobble around a ton".
As D13 says we are all learners all the time.
On the point of corners RK if you dont know the road and cant see round the bend slower is better than "oh shit"
Ride to your ability not others, I think we all get caught out now and then, thats the time to focus and relax coz the modern baby WILL go round a lot faster than the old girl.
I just love cornering..its one of my biggest pleasures on a bike and theres LOADS in Derbyshire...luckily Ive been pilly for 26yrs so just love the sweeping bends..
If you want advice on cornering, get hold of a copy of "Motorcycle Roadcraft". It shows the Police system for taking corners and doing everything else for that matter.The slow in fast out racing line method is not always the best or safest on the road. The alternative is to join your local IAM motorcycle group. There is a one off charge of less than £100 for the "Skills for life" package. The cost includes IAM membership for a year, cost of test at end of training and as many lessons as it takes to get you to test standard. Considering the cost of training these days I think that's pretty good. OK advert over.
Is there anyone riding who isn't using counter steering to get round corners, because if you aren't then it's no wonder corners are causing you problems?
As a US qualified instructor, and despite the majority of their training being inept for actual road riding, we did cover counter steering as part of the basics. I know I had a few old timers who had never used it and didn't believe in it, same as they only ever used rear braking, but if they knew everything, why were they in a class training to get through a test? Please tell me you are joking and that you've not been riding a high speed powerful machine on the road and round bends without counter steering.
googling countersteering i find ive been doing it without thinking about it and without any training courses since i passed me test trillions of years ago mustve just worked it out along the way , ! maybe youve worked it out to rk without realising it! oh, and i aint knocking training courses before someone has a pop as i am thinkin of doin some refresher stuff!
hi timhall, how can ya say slow in fast out of corners is not always the best way, i was trying to get over to the newbies that this way of thinking will never get them in trouble, unless i am missing something
Taking Module 2 training this week so I will ask my Instructor what take the new test takes on it...as it is one of the many elements covered....will be interesting to see what is what..
as a newbie if you go slow in and fast out, when you are inexperienced you wont go wrong, if you go in too hot with little knowledge of what the bike is going to do, or what to do yourself your gonna end up in big trouble
I started riding in the mid 60's you could count the cars on our "main" road on the fingers of 1 hand in a day
I have had a variety of bikes since then and have had the good fortune to survive more spills than I care to remember
Until I decided to instruct (when 2 part test introduced) I had no formal training.
I had been riding over 20 years by then and as a consequence had developed a few "bad habits"
It did not take long to eradicate these and had the added bonus of being able to spot them in my pupils/fellow riders/other instructors, (some from other schemes RAC, Star Rider)
So I would recommend training to "anyone" who hasn't tried it
You have nothing to lose and everything to gain.
You may also learn something, which you could pass on to a fellow rider, which may just save their life
soap box vacated
Oh by the way
Training is not about turning you into Mr/Ms sensible/boring rider
Its about being able to get there and back without exposing yourself to uneccessary hazards and ENJOYING the ride
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