My friends son was sacked tonight from his job,
The story as I have it so far, is that he had asked his manager for last Saturday off work for a family get together and the manager agreed.
The firm has sacked him for having the day off and the manager has denied giving him permission.
He has had no verbal or written warnings so I assume they can't sack him.
However he works for the firm through an agency so do the same rules apply.
He has a girlfriend and a baby son to look after so I am worried about him, any advice would be appreciated.
Don't quote me as I am no expert but I think as he is an agency worker, the company can terminate his employment as and when they wish. Basically, he was employed on a temporary basis and as such at the whim of the company he was with. We have had drivers through an agency, who didn't exactly cut the mustard and so were never seen on our premises again, I am not suggesting he wasn't a good worker, but this close to christmas it seems strange that they have let him go. Has he been replaced by another agency worker from the same firm? Also, the agreement between him and his manager was only verbal and therefore his word against the manager. He possibly would have been better getting it authorised through the agency, so a replacement could be sent for the one shift. Sorry to hear he has lost his job and I hope he finds a better placement soon. Regards.............66
Thanks 66 thats what i was concerned about, i have just been looking on the a c a s site but cant find any thing about agaency workers.
I used to employ staff so I used to be clued up on this but my workers were on my books and not through an agency.
Don't quote me as I am no expert but I think as he is an agency worker, the company can terminate his employment as and when they wish. Basically, he was employed on a temporary basis and as such at the whim of the company he was with.
My thinking too. However, even tho it's agency work employees still have a contract, it may be worth reading it thoroughly the next time he does any agency work so he knows how he stands.
In MHO it can be a pretty flakey way of working, via an agency. When I was with an agency, working for an insurance company, the council contacted me to tell me they had a property for me to view (I was registered homeless at the time) so I had to have a day off in the first week I was there.
The second week a day off for a pre-booked hospital appt and the third week my sciatica was going mental and before I could go to the docs the company told the agency they didn't want me back.
I guess we're not allowed to be sick, or have a life, if we are agency workers.
Agencies are now required to provide statutory sick pay and holoday pay, although there are loopholes for them to get out of the holiday pay Sandi.
Sweeny Todd, the lad was employed by the agency not the place he was working at. The place he was working at can dismiss agency staff as they wish and there's very little protection however, assuming he's done nothing wrong with the actual agency they should be able to find him a different placement I'd have thought. I would suggest he makes an appointment with someone at the agency, explain the situation and what happened and see what they have to say. A similar thing happened to a mate of mine a couple of years ago but the place he was working at did this several times to agency employees and in the end the agency refused to send staff to that particular company so it backfired on them.
Also, anyone is entitled to a half hour appointment with a solicitor free of charge. A solicitor would need this time to decide if you have a realistic case. It doesn't mean you have to instruct the solicitor to work on your behalf, but you'd know where you stand legally. Cab are also worth a try and will explain the legal side of things at no cost.
Hope this helps and the lad gets things sorted. Not a nice thing to happen at any time but made worse with Christmas on the horizon.
As Double six said he has no case I have been on agency books as a driver and you are booked on a day basis even when thay say we need staff for 6 months thay can drop them on a phone call as and when. you will probley find that thay got another lad in to cover his shift and it has now rolled on to weekly work untill he breaths out of line and gets replaced
Arrrgh!! This kind of behaviour infuriates me .. It's exploitation of the first degree and it's happening everywhere, especially amongst agency workers and the younger generation. There is no regard or consideration of how this impacts on a person, their family and their life!.. He could put a formal letter of complaint together airing his disapproval, but would that get him anywhere? .. He's better off out of it and better off concentrating his efforts on seeking alternative employment, rather than waisting his time and energy on these kind of people. I wish him luck in future employment. . There's something better for him out there and if he's determined enough, he'll find it.
Bad Penny unfortunatly every employer who uses agency staff does this its not there fault its the cost cutting to get the work by the agencys that has made this situation. I have got up at 2am drove to a job and been told sorry mate the jobs been cancelled then had to fight the agency to get payed. As a driver I had a bit more law on my side by getting a time sheet signed to say I turned up would mean I have worked driver's other dutys . but if your not a driver you have no law on your side. But I have been told that if that happens now all you get is traveling costs.
Sweenytodd - how long was he working there, even as a temp contract he has rights (due to the changes last year)
After so many weeks he is entitled to the same rights as a permanent member. he needs to also talk to his agency about it.
Unfortunately, the nature of temp/agency is that you can be let go at any time for any reason (as i found out last year myself)
Also check whether he/his family have house insurance and that there is legal cover on the policy. If it has, see if this covers employment issues. If he wants to take it further he can then use the insurance policy to get advice from an employment solicitor. there are some sols that do a free half hour appointment so it might be worth seeing if there is a local sol who does employment law who does this.
The other option is to see if his local Citizens Advice place can help. some can, some can't, but they may have contacts of people who can.
The other thing he needs to do, if he can, is to find out if this company has done it before, if so try and get hold of the people in question.
The new rules are quite specific and the employment tribunals will come down hard on any firm which tries to riggle out of them by underhand methods. He really does need to see someone in the first instance.
www.personneltoday.com/employers.../agency-wo...tions/
www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=3497
RB
Sweeney check this site out
https://www.gov.uk/agency-workers-your-rights/your-righ...ncy-worker
everything depends on length of service, under 12 months no Empoyment rights under Tribunal Law but things change if a member of a Trade Union and there is a negoicated recognition agreement.
This is the TUC link which is good
http://www.worksmart.org.uk/rights/agency_workers
If he has not been sacked by the agency he has NO claim. A company can terminate his placment as and when thay see fit the agency just relocate him at another firm. If he has been sacked by the agency just go to the one down the road he will spend weeks trying to get them to admit thay are in the wrong and it will end up with his word against there's.
Wow some great advice and help, i really thank you all so much.
I have spoken to him today and it was the agency who sacked him, they never told him he just got there and couldnt get in.
He was then told he had been sacked.
His supervisor is on his side and will speak up for him.
he signed his contract 13 months ago when he started there but as yet had his copy of it, but then again no one else has either.
Once again i thank you all for the useful advice and help.
SweenyTodd
get him to right everything down in detail. Dates, times, what was said, who it was said to....and I do mean everything. Its easy to forget details a few weeks or months down the line. Have a scout round Leicester, I know Irwin Mitchell has an office there, and I know the emp solicitors at the Manchester office are very good. The guys where I work do only Defendant work so wouldn't give advice, but Irwins do have a good rep (I promise I'm not on commission!). At the end of the day if you get an hour's appointment and put the details to them (or whoever you chose), they will tell you whether there is a good case or not to run. That way you will only spend an hour's fee (if they don't do the half hour free service) which can range from £100.00 to £150.00 depending on the experience and level of solicitor. This is why I would suggest the house insurance is checked out first to see if cover is provided. Employment tribunals are difficult (and expensive) to run especially "their word/your word" ones. They can also take quite a long time and can be very stressful.
I would say, like JP pointed out, the agency world is very "close". Its very much like legal employment agencies and solicitors in general. Everyone knows someone who knows you, its quite incestious in that respect. He has to weigh up whether its worth running up against that if he is to continue working in that environment. I am not discouraging in anyway, it just helps to think it through completely and all the ramifications that can occur.
RB
I doubt it, to be honest, jp, at least no case against the employer, but possibly against the agency.
If the lad is an agency worker and is paid via the agency rather than from the company directly, then he is likely to be a 'worker' rather than an employee, (which provides the right to claim unfair dismissal). Agency workers have a tripartite relationship between the hirer (the employer), the provider (the agency) and the worker (agency staff). He would have to try and prove that he had a type of employment status known as 'employee' with the hirer/provider and there's a lot of case law out there for claimants that have tried pursuing a case to Tribunal, arguing that they meet the definition of employee for employment status. It's arguable whether he could pursue against the agency for unfair dismissal, however they would probably argue that there was no requirement to provide him with work, or for him to carry it out (meeting the definition of mutuality of obligation). Expert HR advises employers and summarises well here: The Agency Workers Regulations 2010 (SI 2010/93) do not
introduce a new right for agency workers to claim unfair dismissal. An
agency worker can claim unfair dismissal only if he or she is an
employee and meets the other qualifying requirements. An agency worker
will be an employee if he or she works under a contract of employment
with the temporary work agency. Alternatively, the worker could, in
exceptional situations, be an employee of the hirer. If he or she does
not have employee status with either the agency or the hirer, he or she
cannot claim unfair dismissal.
The Regulations provide that the dismissal of an agency
worker who is an employee will be automatically unfair if the reason, or
principal reason, for dismissal was one of the grounds listed in
reg.17(3) of the Regulations (essentially, making or the intention to make a complaint protected by the Act - I've listed them below). The listed grounds include where the
agency worker brings a claim under the Regulations, or alleges that an
agency or hirer has breached the Regulations (including where the hirer
or agency suspects that the agency worker has done or intends to do
either of these things). The agency worker does not need to meet the
qualifying condition of one year’s service (or two years' service for
employees whose employment begins on or after 6 April 2012) to bring a
claim. The grounds are: Asserting the right to the same basic working and employment
conditions to which they would have been entitled had they been
directly recruited by the hirer in relation to:
pay; working time duration; night work;rest periods; rest breaks; andcontractual annual leave.
For example, if an agency worker who has a contract of
employment with the agency alleges that he or she does not benefit from
the same basic working and employment conditions that he or she would
have received if directly recruited to the job, despite having worked
for the required period, and, as a result, the agency ceases to employ
the agency worker, the worker could bring a claim of unfair dismissal
against his or her employer (the temporary work agency) and the
dismissal would be automatically unfair.
Some of these rights apply from the first day a worker is
engaged at a hirer organisation. Other rights apply only after the
worker has been with the same hirer in the same or a substantively
similar role for 12 weeks. The above covers the Agency Worker Regulations and auto unfair dismissal for asserting the rights afforded by the Regulations; NOT unfair dismissal as we all know it. He'll probably have a job arguing that he's an employee of the agency to make a claim against them for unfair dismissal, IMO...if I've spoken toomuch legalese, please let me know and I'll try again
I have to pick up on the point that Tribunals are expensive; they're not - for claimants they're free to apply to until next year and invariably, where you defend yourself or use either the CAB (either with legal aid or just their advice and assistance), a law centre or an employment rights service, then it's free/buttons compared to a solicitor. I should know - I don't like to bang my own drum, but I'm LLB qualified and used to bring tribunal claims for claimants to ET when I worked at the CAB (there's a lot of legally qualified people in the bureaux, actually, to get legal aid funding). The cost tends to fall to Respondents on defending the claim, hence time and expense.
Once again thanks to everyone for all your help,I cant thank you all enough.
Some of you must have R S I writing all that very good imformation.
I have just spoke to the guy involved and advised him to log on have a read of the posts, hey he likes bikes so might even join.
Sweeny
At the end of the day, it's his word against the manager...... And the place he works are going to take their managers word against his unless he has a witness who can vouch for what was agreed.
He did not turn up for work and by his accuser no notice was given and it wasn't a medical or emergency of any sort therefore it is classed...can be classed as 'Gross Misconduct' which is a dismissible breach of company policy..... So there is no case...especially since he doesn't even have a copy of his terms of employment.... Word against word no witnesses.....only defence is if he can prove a recurring problem with that manager ie he has done the same thing to several other employee's.....I am a training manager and have to cover company policy before contracts are signed ...usually they are all much the same....written in favour of the company.... Wouldn't want to see the guy through good money at it because he is pissed off...even rightly so...
It depends how long he has worked there as an agency worker and if he has a set shift patern. Not adhoc covering for one of sickness or short term holiday leave. If he has worked there for a long period he can have the same rights as a full time worker. My advice would be to get a free session with a solicitor that is an employment solicitor. They will be able to give the facts. When we employ individuals via agency there is a contract that we sign up to. Alot of managers dont read these but most are on the back of the individuals time sheet or online if you authorise time sheets. He could ask the agency for the terms and conditions signed up by the company. Also depends on how legit the agency is
I'm an agency worker and i am employed on a daily basis. The worker is employed by the agency not the company you actually do the work for. In short no come back at all.
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