It was June this year I passed my advanced test. The examiner did say “its not the end but the beginning.” So I am still learning.
Recently travelling with friends going up to Cadwell Park, on an approach to a right-hander I’m on the left side, a mate in front is near the middle, as per normal.
All of sudden he realises the turn is too sharp, slows up and cuts over to the left! As luck happens rather than collide with him, I went further over to the left and rode over the ‘Give Way’ lines of a road (from the left) with no car waiting.
The question is, where should I be safely be positioned in this scenario? Keep further back? (I’d lose them and get lost if no satnav!) Take the lead? (No chance they’re too quick!).
I wonder how many here have similar experiences and found a happy medium?
I'd say you should have been more to the middle of the lane Ronaldo if there was a junction on the left ahead, presuming you couldn't see well into that junction.
Yes, we position to the left on the approach to right handers and to the right on the approach to left handers, but this is only the very basics of road positioning.
Remember, we always sacrifice position for safety. Your potential hazards were the approaching bend and the junction on the left, so you should have halved your distance to the relative dangers and ridden down the middle of the lane (again, presuming you can't see well into the junction).
Of course this means that because you can't see as far around the bend that you'd have to reduce your speed accordingly, but the rules of positioning are; position for safety first, then view and then speed. Or as Rach learnt elsewhere (can't remember where), safety, stability and then view.
Also, if you had to move across into the mouth of the junction on the left as your mate braked, you were probably too close. I only ride in close formation with someone if I know their riding very well, otherwise I hang back.
Hope this answers your question and sorry if it sounds as though I'm ripping your riding, I'm not. Indeed, you've taken and passed your test, which is more than can be said for me! I will get around to doing my test soon though ... if I can be bothered lol!
No need to apologise geoff. At that time, I forgot about that bit; “always sacrifice position for safety.”
The thing is I got too involved with nailing the right-hander and everything just came up too quick.
In this particular group of friends (my mental ones) we normally do ride in ‘order’ so I thought I knew my mate’s riding pattern but on that bend I got caught out.
As much as I thought, as you’ve said, I’m just going to have to hang back.
it hard to really give a suitable answer to your comment without actually knowing the bend in question..and every time you may approach the bend in question circumstances may dictate a different approach.
If the Give way lines you went over were like the ones we have up here,.. well slippy, especially on a right hander while you had some lean on, and you got a twitch with the nose, you might not have had the room to correct and recover before going grass cutting,.. or finding something harder.
difficult to say without being there - but if I was on road I didn't know I would be further back from a rider infront so I can judge the road myself and not be drawn into doing a common speed that everyone else is travelling at.
Friend infront approaching a tight bend too fast and out of line? I would be already slowing down before they had got there, especially if I didn't know the road that well.
hey whats the problem Rolando, every one on here could give you advice and most of it good but your the one who was there on the day, the fact that you came out of it ok and did't bring anyone else down proves you got it right, it's one big learning curve and you'l hopefuly learn from it and not get caught out like that again, the only other thing you could do is hang back
@Paj1369 “If the Give way lines you went over were like the ones we have up here,.. well slippy, especially on a right hander…”
Sounds like I would have been off for sure lol.
@ tcat “Friend infront approaching a tight bend too fast and out of line? I would be already slowing down before they had got there,” Interesting point thanks.
@ Bikeabill. Before that particular bend I misjudged forward observations with planning.
But you’ve hit the nail on the head. I should of hang back. And it was certainly one big learning curve. That's for sure!
Weirdoraptor In: Brough, E. Yorks
Posts: 2087
Karma:
It sounds as if you had already chosen your line, but by having to move off it to avoid a collision means you were too close to your mate, end of. I bet every single person on here has done this type of thing at some point, either on bike or in car.
Don't beat yourself up about it, use it. The effect it has obviously had on you could save your life now because you probably won't do it again.
the main concern I had when taking advanced (and teaching it) was that there was too much emphasis on speed, (making good progress an all that).
ER-5 on a motorway and my speed didn't drop below 70 - I did however move over to allow a car to pass me which was driving too close, speed dropped to 70 then back into 3rd lane to overtake trucks in 2nd lane.
Berated by advanced instructor as the "Car didn't have blue lights on and my bike was capable of over 115 mph"
Good job I didn't have a Hayabusa then -
He also grumbled after an overtake on an A road that I "had gone too soon" - as he had waited until later and had caught me up again no problem - considering he was on a ST110 and I was on the ER-5 (and he was observing me so I thought it best to take it easy while he caught up)- how fast do I have to go so he can't catch me up? ?
The main thing I used to emphasis was positioning and observation - the speed will sort itself out
This is quite interesting this advanced lark,
Back in 1999 i bought a new R6 which came with a free advanced day's riding....
The instructor on an old 900 Divvy and another guy on an SV650 and me...
We go out it's October, and i'm thinking ok, better not ride like i normally do here plus very windy one this day, the instructor was riding at what could be best summed up at daft speeds on tiny narrow B and C roads, and on roads where you could see perfectly was going slower, than i would have...
Half way throught the day, we stop and he says ok time to head back and we can crank it up a notch...
So me thinking this means "game on" lets it slip out the pants a little, and kick his arse all the way back, to the bike shop, and sit there waiting for about 10 or 15 minutes, for them to get back,
When they return he says "well.... that got a little fast didn't it"
I said "well you did say crank it up, so i did"... he just looked at me sternly... makes me chuckle to this day
bloody hell guys Im doin my IAM at the mo and its a real eye opener lol, as only just passed test in Dec....radical riding ....agresssive Iwould say but like it :-)
Ronaldo, here's a phrase (one of many) that was drilled into me a good few years ago "you must be able to stop safely in the distance you can see to be clear ahead of you" particularly relevant to cornering. Personally I ride my own lines and consider every other road user to be a un predictable idiot, yes even my mates, its a very simple error to make to follow someone into their accident, sounds like you had one of those moments that will keep you safe in the future. There's nothing wrong with making mistakes, its not learning from them that is the crime. BTW, congrats on passing the course
@Weirdoraptor “you could save your life now because you probably won't do it again.”
I hope not lol.
@tcat “The main thing I used to emphasis was positioning and observation - the speed will sort itself out.”
That does make sense thanks.
@Blade_rider "well.... that got a little fast didn't it"
Brings to mind on a de-brief my Observer (instructor) said on to me “why so slow on after leaving the 30mph to the national (country) speed?” I said I was waiting for you! He said “oh don’t worry about me.” So the next time I left him standing lol.
I got pulled up for that later by a Senior Observer on a X-check (too quick).
@kazninja “….aggressive…”
To this very day I still don’t understand as to why its like this. My Observer was forever at me to go for the overtakes. Even under the test conditions this is want they want.
Not that I’m complaining, because after all it did make me a better rider.
All the best for your course by the by.
@Helmet Hair "you must be able to stop safely in the distance you can see to be clear ahead of you" particularly relevant to cornering.”
Brings to mind when the Chief Observer was observing my Observer on a ride-out. He said its “good to see an Associate keep up to the national speed (country), but would you be able to stop on that corner?” I thought no I couldn’t. But it was worth noting.
@geoffb2005 “….But getting from A to B, as quickly as is safely possible ... that's a true skill!….”
Picking up on the word ‘skill,’ personally speaking in I think its just as difficult to ride at an advanced level, as in retrospect ride beside mental mates. But advanced riding is more enjoyable.
![Advanced riding v Standard… - Forums [Biker Match]](/images/backgrounds/strips/8mobileLQ.jpg)
![Advanced riding v Standard… - Forums [Biker Match]](/images/backgrounds/strips/8desktopLQ.jpg)
